How cute an american flag plus a semi universal nation flag as well. Should have been only one the be politically correct, An Earth Space Exploration Flag would have been better. United nations of space.

Mars is just one of billions and billions of bodies in space. Why keep it pristine? The solar system is ours. Once we make it ours, we can discover pristine places elsewhere that have, perhaps, exotic crystals or delicate ecosystems of half-frozen bacteria. Maybe at that point we'll realize that half-frozen alien bacteria are as useful as half-frozen fish sticks.

I still think it's pretty obvious that if we go to Mars and discover Bacteria or life at all, it's that life that should be learning from us, not the other way around.

Terraform!

What if there is indigenous Martian life? Do we just blithely make it extinct to suit ourselves, as we have done (and continue to do at an ever more rapid pace) to so many species here on Earth?

I'm not talking microbes on one end of the scale, or little green men on the other. I'm talking indigenous flora and fauna above the microbial level, but below sentience. Do we have the moral right just because we have the power?

Moral and Ethical Right?
While it is a question that should be asked. The first answers reguards the 'discovery' of such flora or fauna and the existance thereof.
Those of religious beliefs will be forced to address the issue of 'life' outside of theological or philosophical knowledge and beliefs. For the everyday individual, little concern over this would occur--"Oh, they found a flower on Mars--big deal--hey bubba pass me another beer and oh what team is playing in the Superbowl?" Yadda, Yadda, Yadda. "Well, guess me and the ol'e wife will go to Church on Sunday, darn I really want to watch the game." (Not of this thinking.)
Those involved in the sciences, will find it interesting. What types of genetic structures and sequences does the 'little furry Marsits' have? How did the "Marsits" evolve? What is the "Marsits" habitat like? And two-hundred years of slicing, dicing, microsoping, charts, tables, graphics, pictures, and a vast array of "Doctoral Thesis" will follow. (I being of this thinking.)
Yet, the deciding reason if humans do go. Will include exploration and extending human habitat (out of need for resources and business potential growth of sales). There were 114 species that became extinct on the Earth over the last 20 years. Humans had the power to protect those species and did nothing!
So, the little furry 'Marsits' will become a product of evolutionary advancment, replaced by a giant sewage rats that feast upon the rotten carcass of all the 'Marsits' that died because of human excretment and higher Methane Levels that occurred in the 'Marsits' ecological niches. Then one can post a web-page on the loss of the "Marsits"; much like the Passenger Pigeon and Samutrian Tigers--Just make sure that one has publishing rights--one could even write a book titled "When Marsits roam Freely" or movie rights "Finding Marsits"; cartoon version.
Yet, there is a population boom ahead for humanity with projects of 8-9 billion individuals. Humanity will decided to go because of that need for discovering the potential. One could argue about moral and ethical rights of the 'Marsits' here in America or abroad. Yet, there will be individuals who don't give a rats behind about the 'Marsits' habitat or ecological needs; because human needs will outweigh the 'Marsits' right for existance.
What happened to the Buffalo?
What happened to the Aurochs?
What happened to the Tarpan?
What happened to the Parrots?
What happened to the Doodo?
What happened to the 114 species of plant and animals that became extinct on Earth in the last 20 years?
Why does humanity allow Chimpanzees to be caged, eaten as bushmeat, medically tested--when they are 99.5 percent genetically the same as Homo sapiens?

Maybe humanity should genetically engineer itself, to have 6 breast, 4 arms, multiple insect-like eyes of infrared vision, an exoskeleton like a lobster, nano-implants for augmented ceberal functioning and telepathic group communication and understanding, processing vast amounts of data within a Borg-like cubical.

Lots of passion on this subject, this is good. One note though JWeikle, we've lost a lot more than 114 species of plants and animals in the past 20 years, the number is in the thousands.

I personally don't see why we shouldn't put humans on Mars permanently. If there is life, and I believe there is, then it is subsurface life. We could begin terraforming today and native life wouldn't feel the effects for centuries. Most likely, Martian live would thrive alongside imported Earth life. Terraforming Mars may very well be necessary to save what life is on Mars.

All evidence to date shows that there is no life on Mars. Every one in the scientific community would love to find life there to prove that life can exist on planets other than earth. If people start to believe that there is life there with out scientific proof this takes the topic into the realms of faith .. belief with no factual basis.

I believe that the colonisation spirit is not dead. Should we have left america alone so as to preserve its unspoilt beauty but to offer no benefit to man kind.. No. We may have destroyed some flora and fauna but we have also enriched the world by exposing a wole whealth of new and exciting prospects.

We need to awaken this spirit again and not sit still whilst dreamers try to prove something might exist before taking action. If life is there the sooner we get there the more we can learn. If life isn't there we still have a whole new world to explore.

We need to make space exploration "cool" again for our youngsters and for them to accept that challenges involve risks... but the rewards are far greater than than singing songs.

Mike

The exploration of this great nation was done by the common man not specialist, engineers or other very some what maybe over educated people not that any of these are wrong or not needed. But until the common man can participate there will only be government minimal enthusiasism and only the smallest of the required spirit for going where no one has gone before. It is still cool to us old guy's. If give the chance to go I would.

Mike, you raise some good points: we will only know if life is on Mars by going there, and more does need to be done to inspire our children.

But how can you say that 'All evidence to date shows that there is no life on Mars'? The evidence, when taken as a whole, virtually seals the case. I could lay it all for you, but I would be repeating myself.

As far as faith goes: I really think this is the wrong word to use. Believing that Mars does support life isn't so much faith as it is belief. Faith, as you said, is belief without hard facts. I believe that Mars does support life today as well as in its distant past. The facts have brought me to this belief. Would it be nice to know that life developed on at least two worlds in our solar system, yes it would, but this doesn't make it any less likely.

Scientists are often as guilty of narrow-mindedness as clerics. The essence of science is to believe in something and to try to prove or disprove it. Every discovery was at one point not grounded in hard fact. Somebody believed something then went about trying to prove it. With faith, the process never reaches the proving stage and there lies the problem.

Old!!! Who!!! Me!!! alright maybe just a bit but like you I would love to go

Zach your point is taken and well expressed

Mike

I guess the best way to get at an answer of teraforming of Mars and of colonization is to simply ask ourselves do we as the Human civilization of Earth want to be the people to live on two planets.
Which then raises lots of other questions about land, power of rights, and more. Regardless of who, how or when we get there.

Harold, Mike, Prozac, and everybody else....

I wrote Robert Zubrin about my balloon idea and he wrote me back! I have never been happier to recieve a 'no' answer in my life!

He says that ballons can't reach an altitude high enough to escape Earth's gravity and that an ion-drive can't overcome atmospheric drag even at that altitude. So I guess its back to the drawing board... =)

I do not know if enough experimentation on the laser repulsion propulsion system has been done at this time but maybe combinations of these technologies can lead to a much lower cost of launch if we can make it work.

Maybe starting with space elevator launcher followed by laser repulsion then by a much smaller to orbit booster or of other combinations might do the trick.
All of this is just out of the box thinking which is good. I am glad that you got a response to your email even if it were no. Do not stop thinking though and keep those emails going. I know that I am still waiting on the one that I sent some time ago.

I think that one way or another its going to be a real can of worms.
In one corner will be several camps of folks who will be motivated by scientific curiosity to explore first hand. Another camp in this group will want exclusive rights to do so. Still another will be too timid to touch anything and want to keep it off limits.
Another corner (probably by itself)will be groups of neo-nihilists with rich funding who will try to block anything... anyone... anywhere.. anyhow... for whatever reason.
In another corner someone will eventually smell cold hard cash in getting franchise to terraform Mars. Or one may get francise to provide transport. This camp may have several competitors.An offshoot on this camp will import people enmasse for labor. Get ready for interplantary Pork-a-saurus erectus.
In still another corner the time may come when large communities of people will fund their own attempts at settlement. Their motivations will be diverse. But they wil probably reflect some disenfranchised slices of our poupulation. This may not happen for a good long while. But once the cost of such a thing comes down as it may eventually do, it may resemble the first stages of what happened to the Americas post 1500-ish. If you make it breathable...or even cheap enough to dig. they will come.

Either way, as far as any Martians are concerned, If it wont fit in a jar in someones fridge....One can only hope that we will at least try to make this effort.

Chris is right.If we ever go on Mars we will have just the same social movements and motivations we have on Earth.
There are going to be a lot of groups, and anyonone of them motivated by something, pushed by something to that so far land, and this is not bad in theory. We might carry every mistake with us, and that is bad, or we might transform ourselves, and that is the real hard part, not the colonization itself.
The colonization and terraforming are the challenges for engineers and scientists, and there are going to be a lot of this great people
to take the challenge in their hands.It might be their Holy Grail, their chance to feel closer to gods.
On the other hand, is the human nature itself that must be adjusted or modified to the new planet.It must be an essential transformation deep in our ways of beeing, thinking and feeling.And I really do think that the enviroment of the planet itself will 'reshape' the first pioneers, the ones who will try to understand it.
The real problems will appear when new people will feel so much 'at home' that they won't learn nothing from the planet itself, because they will live in their own bubbles and the contact with the enviroment will be totaly lost.
To have a second Earth with all its problems is not the real goal of going an Mars.
If we want more land we could take care of the deserts on Earth, avoiding the great problems of terraforming another planet.
If we want resources we could go on asteroids for mining operations, or even the Moon and it may proove to be even cheaper.
The goal of going on Mars must not be reduced to this.There must be something else too, and that means a whole new society, a whole new way of thinking, a model for Earth itself.
If these things are not going to take place you could stay at home, and let the goverments send a few crews to research the planet, and that
would be all.
And there is another thing: Mars calls for you, is the new frontier the new challenge, and as dr. Zubrin said, people will allways need the calling of the frontier because it promises liberty.
Mars is calling us.

So long as the war machine and of civil unrest are left home, a new Mars should be able to avoid most of the Earthly pit falls. If no taxation on Mars colonist occurs then there will be no planetary wars either.
We should all strive to create a perfect society if one is possible on Mars and to leave all earthly issues behind if we ever do colonize mars.

When we put people on mars we cannot think we can leave earth behind and start the new perfect eden on mars. where there are people, there will be trouble, learn to live with itand try to avoid it!
I think there will be humans on mars in the next 25-years or so, what we do after that will depend on the worlds situation at that moment.
Once we decide to stay, I don't think terraforming will be a question, it will be a necessaty before you can do any large scale use of the planet.
As for any martians that might exist? The tops of the big three wil always stay pristine because they are on the edge of space, and as much i like wildlife, I am afraid thats where they will have to go. Like the rest of them, we wont bother,will we?

(as for the american flag in the picture; as a european I don't even bother anymore. It seems to be in an americans nature to try and tell the rest of the world to be like them and their "perfect" society.)