The launch date is in 2009 otherwise known as science Lab on the left side of this page. We have the recon probe going in 2005 and the phoenix lander in 2007. These probes are only going to do a very little interms of what is needed for putting man on mars. Can we not combine some of these to get more results for the individual cost that we will incurr for each. Make each probe do more for the money. Also these are only single robotic mission unlike the rovers that we are currently enjoying.

I have been learning about the Mars Society as I can from the articles that have been published. My conclusions thus far indicates that the organizationis is geared for the research of the human element and not of any other aspect of a planned mission to Mars or for that fact to the Moon. Here is a recent email that sort of puts it in that veiw point for me at least.

I would like to find out if any Mining operations are planned as part of resource
evaluation for fuel for Return rockets or station use, oxygen generation, and other
mineral research to be used in building materials for construction or for under ground colony expansion.

There reply:
We will not be doing any serious mining operations at either of our stations, which are located on public land and therefore, subject to environmental considerations. It is likely that mining operations would be conducted on Mars.

I hope they are doing this kind of research maybe else where within there organization.

Harold, have you found anyone who is making a serious attempt to build all the equipment needed to supply and expand a Mars colony?

What is killing me is there is no plans out there that I can find. If I had the resources of the Mars Society or the Planetary Society I would begin by mapping out a plan to put people on Mars. I would then have my team begin developing working equipment that could be used my colonists. We know that we are going to need greehouses, water extracting drills, propelant factories, brick or concrete assembly lines, and more.

If these organizations would go ahead and make the equipment needed for Mars then when China or Russia is willing to take the chance with their people, they will have a ready to go base, and need only supply the rocket.

Zack: You are are right, At this time there is not a concerted effort or organization that has been working on the whole projects of the moon or of Mars for any thought of a colony.

And you are right again with the required needs of greenhouses, water extracting or drilling equipment, propelant manufacturing factories, mining opoerations and equipment , brick or concrete or other block stone building material made from lunar or Martian soils or minerals, and much more.

This very piece mealed approach and is somewhat disappointing to me as well. We are as it seems stuck in a battle of Project for the good of mankind versus the cost of said same vision. With no organization being willing to even attempt any facett of the SEI vision.

I look at the process of just getting the shuttle flying again for how long it will be since the last flight, whether the desision to fly is right or wrong with the shuttle the way it is or for that fact after the cost for repairs which maybe to high have been incurred.

The benifit of getting it back into space is to us for short term on the shuttle ending in 2010 or if it should be extended with recertification for a longer period for the above mentioned costs.

Why is NASA waiting or only doing just the minimal with respect to the vision. I feel they have been told to wait for the commissions report, for any presidential disisions and or proclemations to be made before they will move forward.

It was only last week that NASA began looking for white papers on the CEV concepts. I am bewildered...

To further compound things some would argue that the vision is for robotic missions and secondly for man. While I myself feel that it is more broad based and incompassing much more.

Nasa does or had done much of the needed research but has not done any implimentation of the hardware at this time for any colony. They will probably claim to have lost it any ways.

Yes Harold, maybe you don't feel the same, but I find it heart-breaking. I love this country, I really do, but it saddens me to no end to see people support war so readily and yet not care that even a small fraction of that money could put a whole new world at our fingertips.

And why is NASA being so damn cautious about shuttles that won't fly for five more years? I'm sure there are thousands if not millions of people who would jump at the chance to fly on a 'dangerous' shuttle today.

I fear we aren't living up to the greatness we came from. Our ancestors would shake their heads in disgust if they could see how we cower in the face of a 1% chance of something going wrong.

Btw, how old are you Harold?

The pride that you mention is missing from many other facets of life and of the jobs we earn a living at. I will be um. um .um I had to think for a minute 46 this year just old enough to remember the apollo lunar landings but young enough to have missed the draft for Vietnam. I too love this great nation, for the advantages that we all take for granted; that to which we have over other nations, and for the freedoms that we all enjoy.